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COMMUNITY OPINION: Insiders and Outsiders

The number of people in San Benito County making intolerant, ignorant, and xenophobic remarks regarding new housing developments, the homeless population, and undocumented immigrants is disturbing.

This opinion was contributed by community member Heather Graham. The opinions expressed do not necessarily represent BenitoLink or other affiliated contributors.

As a San Benito County resident, I am disappointed to see our community segregating itself into a culture of insiders and outsiders. The number of people I see or hear making intolerant, ignorant, and xenophobic remarks regarding new housing developments and the homeless population is disturbing.

If we’re all too busy labeling each other and bickering with each other on social media, and in person, then we’re never going to have enough energy left at the end of a long hard day of work and commuter traffic, to demand a quality of life for ourselves and our children that includes tap water we actually want to drink and a wage we can comfortably live on.

For now, perhaps we could cease petty squabbling about traffic, roads, homeless people, and people on welfare, and instead direct our attention toward the detention facilities imprisoning children at the U.S.-Mexico border. Kids are being separated from their families, for the crime of crossing a border illegally. It is a despicable and utterly devastating situation much worthier of community outrage.

As reports and video evidence of the incarceration of these minors continue to permeate through all forms of media, the pro-life crowd is noticeably silent in San Benito County right now, considering the news reports that young children are being deprived of physical reassurance and soothing touch, which we understand to be a life-threatening form of torture for a child.

Yet, what if you had to choose between surrendering your child to the uncaring hand of homeland security, where at least they would, presumably, remain fed, clothed, sheltered, and in one piece, rather than see them come to harm or succumb to illness and/or starvation. For many undocumented immigrants and asylum seekers, crossing the border is a matter of life or death.

Now, before anyone dares to defend this form of child abuse by claiming that people who cross the border illegally are criminals who deserve to have their children taken from them and impounded. Or that people who immigrate here illegally do so mainly to take advantage of state and federal programs, please remember most working-class people in this state, and in this country, are about two paychecks shy of abject poverty. So, don’t get too comfy up there on your high horse, furthermore, can we all agree here and now that what's being done to these kids is inexcusable. 

It’s not easy for me to love America right now, but believe me, I still do, so before you tear me apart in the comments, just remember that this opinion piece is coming from a place of heartfelt love and concern for innocent children. 

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About:
Heather Graham (mrs.g)

I'm a card-carrying millennial and a renaissance woman.

Comments

"what if you had to choose between surrendering your child to the uncaring hand of homeland security, where at least they would, presumably, remain fed, clothed, sheltered, and in one piece,"

So, Homeland Security or ICE - the "uncaring hand" - will feed, cloth, shelter, protect and provide medical care to those children.  That's the strangest definition of "uncaring" I've ever heard.

We give people impossible jobs such as trying to respect the rights of the homeless - many of who have substance abuse and mental problems - while at the same time protecting the rights and health of the residents who often just want to let their kids out to play in an area that is not full of drunks or illegal drug users or covered in human excrement.

Then we sit back, criticize them, and call them Nazis (no name calling does not seem to apply to everyone) because they can't do a perfect job when they are trying to do the impossible.  Wow, how easy it all is when one does not have to be responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Marty Richman

Submitted by (Heather Graham) on

That's right I said uncaring and I meant uncaring. As for name calling, I don't remember referring to anyone as a nazi directly. It's obviously not a perfect world or a perfect situation in San Benito. I'd like to take my kid out to play without dodging creeps and weirdos too but in all fairness the homeless population have been the least of my problems in that regard.

Ms. Graham, perhaps you have not been following the issues at Dunne Park or the historic issues at Park Hill regarding the homeless.  For the record I am not uncaring, unsympathetic, or biased against the homeless, they are homeless for all sorts of reasons, but the total impact is negative - no one can deny that - and the county has spent a lot of money to make a homeless shelter available.  Just because the homeless are not a problem for YOU, does nor mean they are not a problem.

Now, your statement, "I don't remember referring to anyone as a nazi directly" actually means that you believe these people to be Nazis, you just did not say it. otherwise you would say, "I do not believe that the Homeland Security employees are Nazis."  Have I got that right?  As I'm sure you know many people do call them Nazis, so you are being more than a little too cute with your word selection.

I'm Jewish by blood, I know a Nazi when I see one.

Since you seem to admit that Homeland Security cares for those that come into their realm, why don't you explain just what you mean by uncaring (which is name-calling by proxy).  Do they provide better shelter, better food, better warmth, better medical care and protection?  Of course they do.  You may believe that it's not the BEST possible care, and that's fine, but is certainly a world from not caring.

There are many real problems in this world, you don't have to make them up or exaggerate them to make a point.

Marty Richman

mrs.g's picture
Submitted by Heather Graham (mrs.g) on

Are you having fun? 

Submitted by Ken Dunn (kenneth) on

What do you think? You must tell us where you're finding so many racist, negative people, who love to torture babies. I'll admit that some of my friends are proudly sub-par, but I don't think that even the worst of them are as bad as the ones you mention. You also say you're a card-carrying millennial, I guess that means you're very young and didn't see the days when there were enough resources to go around, one income could pay the mortgage and support a family, most things you bought were quality that lasted a very long time, instead of junk before you open the package, like today. There were very few homeless folks, none at all in my home town. The national parks were fresh, quiet, unpolluted and untrampled. The average person could still buy a decent piece of land and have a place of his or her own and look forward to a better future. Today all those things have been reversed and we are preparing to start drinking re-claimed ocean water and be forever renters in small apartments with nowhere to go from there. Maybe the reason you say people quibble so much is that there is not much else to do, since so many of the things that made life better are no longer available, the good land has all been taken.  You'll pay a high price for desert today, when not long ago it was free. Sorry to sound so depressing but the truth does depress some people. I'm beginning to notice that, but still don't know just why, but I think they find it easier to just keep plowing ahead instead of stopping to repair the damage they've done. It will likely be difficult for young people today, since their parents didn't plan very well for them, and their leaders are taking them to a strange and very crowded place. Maybe seawater won't be so bad.

Submitted by (Heather Graham) on

I am familiar with the homeless problem, I'm simply addressing the way in which people often disregard the homeless as less than human. As for the Nazi thing, I didn't bring it up, you did, I don't think homeland or ice are Nazi's. As for what I meant by uncaring, I was implying that a little more goes into the care of a child than food/water/clothes/shelter, things like affection, and attentiveness. So if you're done putting words im my mouth I'd like to remind you that these are my opinions, my feelings, you don't have to like them, support them or respect them but here they are. Thank you for reading. 

Well, this is going to be a good air-clearing debate.  It's true that a third party usually does not feel the same way about someone else's child than a GOOD parent feels about their own, but not all parents are GOOD parents; some are quite the opposite.  We have all the experience in the world with that, "in 2015, over 670,000 children spent time in U.S. foster care."  Many were taken from abusive parents and dangerous situations by the "uncaring" government.

Second, it is often true that parents have to choose between safety for their children and having their children near them to receive parental love (if the parent loves the child).  Historically, loving parents have taken the attitude of "save my child."  This was common during the Great Depression when the kids were sent to live with a relative, during WWII when they left cities to avoid bombing and many, many, other times.

The people and organizations they ended up with (Jewish children were hidden by non-Jewish organizations) were not uncaring and could often provide the safety and material care the parents could not.  Yes, in a perfect world every parent loves their children and parents do not have children they cannot provide for and never have to give them up even temporarily -  but there is no such thing as a perfect world, we try, sometimes failing, to do what is possible, the impossible has to wait.

I believe it is a slur to change that employees at Homeland Security or the American people are uncaring, perhaps they do not care as much as you do, but sainthood is hard to come by; the rest of us do the best we can.

Marty Richman

Now, your statement, "I don't remember referring to anyone as a nazi directly" actually means that you believe these people to be Nazis, you just did not say it. 

Marty: this is a ridiculous inference wherein you're drawing Ms. Graham into a debate through a less than cunning Strawman fallacy. If you want to make a point based on facts, please do so. Otherwise, readers are burdened with trying to understand the basis for emotive accusations without merit or fact. You brought the word 'Nazi' into the forum, not Ms. Graham. Extrapolating the use of the term 'Nazi directly' into a more nefarious and sinister intent or meaning is absurd. In point of fact, she did not directly call anyone a Nazi and we have no reason to infer or believe that she intended to do so. 

mrs.g's picture
Submitted by Heather Graham (mrs.g) on

Michael,

Thank You!! 

Once again I am criticizing those who call or even infer that Homeland Security personnel were Nazis and I was not satisfied with with what I though was originally a lukewarm response to this popular theme,  Eventually, Ms. Graham said directly that she did not think they were Nazis and I was satisfied.

My statement "I know a Nazi when I see one" is meant to point out that people throw that term around without even understanding how serious it is and I believe I do understand that. I  don't think it's possible to discuss this issue without referring to the outrageous rhetoric being used, especially since the writer complained about the rhetoric on one side of the issue.

In no way did I say or imply that anyone making comments was a Nazi and any such interpretation is simply wrong.

I can only clarify my intent, I cannot control how someone else interprets it.  

Marty Richman

  

I have been told that there were complaints that I used the word Nazi.  As one can clearly see from my original comment above ("Then we sit back, criticize them, and call them Nazis") what I was actually doing was criticizing those who compare the Homeland Security people to Nazis.

Marty Richman

  

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Heather, I think it is unfair to say the "squabbling" of everyday issues in our community is petty. This is everyday life for us and we are concerned with our communities and making them better whether our opinions sometimes differ or not. As someone from a Central American family and quite versed in Central American politics/history/culture, let me tell you - If these immigrants were more concerned with their homeland politics/economy like we are, they would be in a much better situation and not needing to immigrate here illegally.

mrs.g's picture
Submitted by Heather Graham (mrs.g) on

Fair enough.

Central America, by definition, has a population of almost 50 million people (or 180 million if you include Mexico). Some Central American countries enjoy a higher standard of living than others; the migrants attempting to claim asylum and appeal to the Justice Department for sanctuary into the US overwhelmingly claim to leave their countries due to threats of violence, murder, human trafficking/sexual abuse and abject poverty. 

Gang violence against citizens, politicians and law enforcement - including kidnappings, torture and murder by drug cartels in Mexico - are fought by that government to the point of futility. So the suggestion that tens of millions of innocent people are not concerned about politics and their respective economies or they wouldn't need to immigrate here is an overwhelming simplification of an artificial crisis created by our current president. 

Trump likes the Supreme Court when they rule in his favor and hates the judicial system when it rules against him. It was his policy to separate migrant children from their families for no good reason, other than to exploit and leverage the lives of babies in order to compel Congress to pay for his border wall. The same one he promised Mexico would pay for during his campaign; a profound lie and egregious moral crime against innocent people entitled to Due Process. 

Mike, you have let your hatred of Trump trump you reasoning, show me one president who did not like the Supreme Court when they ruled in his favor and did not hate it when it ruled against him.

Barack Obama's criticism of the Court's decision in Citizens United v. FEC (2010), striking down parts of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act 2002 got personal, remember?
Obama actually criticized the decision during his 2010 State of the Union Address with six of the Court's nine members seated in the front rows. Justice Alito was spotted mouthing the words, "not true", as the President delivered his criticism of the decision.

Trump is so bad that it's hard for me to believe that you picked the one thing where he's just like everyone else as an example.

The post here was that Homeland Security was uncaring - and that is a false as your inference that only Trump hates when he loses at the SCOTUS, they ALL hate it.

p.s. We know the liberals are calling ICE and Homeland Security and Trump voters Nazis, it's not exactly a secret.  "If you vote for Trump, then you -- the voter -- you -- not Donald Trump -- are standing at the border like Nazis, going 'here', 'here'," Deutsch said"

Marty Richman

Marty, "the liberals"? Really?  All of them?  I suspect that the level of name-calling is roughly equivalent on both sides and does not include the majority of either side.  Does one person you quoted, Deutsch, speak for all liberals?  No more than any one person speaks for all conservatives.  No I don't for a second think that all Homeland Security or ICE or CPB personnel are uncaring.  I think it likely that some are.  I agree that most are just trying to do a very difficult job the best they can.   Whether that job should be done at all is another argument completely.

 

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Michael you are correct in your assessment that some Central American nations have a high standard of living but dig a little deeper...why? If you know the history of Costa Rica you would know that those people fought for their freedom in civil war, abolished their military, invested in education and have a healthy democracy. You act like it was given to them. Like they didn't carve their own path in the world. I guess the other nations just got unlucky with the gangs? Come on! When is it time to hold people accountable for there actions or better yet their nations actions? 

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Let me add this - I only want to speak for the Central American viewpoint of which I am personally educated on. Do misconstrue my comments to speak much for Mexico's problems. Mexico is a much larger nation the all of the Central American countries combined and have their own unique set of problems. I am not Mexican and do not have a remedy for Mexico's problems as a nation. 

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Mike, Please note I didn't mention Trump or the Supreme Court at all. My comment has to do with the cause of immigration, not the effect. 

Ms. Graham and Mr. Smith. I stand with you on this issue, as would anyone who is not bound by rigid thinking to defend an inhumane and arguably unconstitutional practice in the name of the American people. Ms. Graham, please don't give up in the face of bullying. Stand your ground, take the slights for what they are and keep plugging away. You only have to defend what you said, not what someone else wants to state, imply or infer you said. Don't talk about Trump, to do so is inflammatory in the extreme. There are many people in this community who are with you.

In the real world disagreement is not bullying - it's disagreement. Almost everything in America is "arguably unconstitutional"; didn't we just go over a lot of issues concerning the 2nd Amendment which many people believe was misinterpreted by the Supreme Court?  You cannot be serious.to use THAT as an argument until there is a ruling.

If one does not like name calling they should go out of their way to disassociate themselves from name callers.  I note than Ms, Graham went to lengths to call the people in Homeland Security "uncaring", is that not a slur and insult reflecting on their nature?  That's name calling.

Please, stop feigning insults with passive-aggressive arguments, I know Mike Smith well and he knows me, he's one of the most vicious commentators, often attacking the motives of those he disagrees with, if you do not believe me just read his stuff.  I think he's wrong, but he does it out of passion and no one accuses him of "bullying" - this is not a schoolyard.and I don't do Facebook, so I'm not going to un-friend anyone.

You are free to agree with whoever you like - just grow up.and leave the psycho-babble ans asides to the TV commentators, if you have something to say to me I'm right here.

Marty Richman

The vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, initially come to the U.S. for economic opportunity; that is as true today as it has been throughout our history.

The U.S. needs friendly legal immigrants across the whole spectrum of humans because like most wealthy nations we have a very low birth rate and an aging population. We need the energy young people bring and we need more than just engineers or people with HB-1 visas, we also need people willing to START near the bottom – as did almost every immigrant group - and do the necessary work that “wealthier” and “entitled” U.S. citizens will not do and old people cannot do.

In due time the legal immigrants will work their way up the ladder like every other group of immigrants. That’s why we need a lot more LEGAL immigration, but we do not need ILLEGAL immigration because we cannot control it. We can’t pick those who meet our standards (whatever they are) and it’s unfair to those waiting to enter legally who just don’t happen to live within easy traveling distance and/or who respect our laws.

It is true that criminals find it easier to hide among large numbers of illegal immigrants crossing the boarder (a needle in the haystack is hard to find) not to mention preying upon the majority of illegal immigrants who are not criminals. However,even non-criminals will lie to gain economic opportunity – they always have and always will.

We should have some room for legitimate, extraordinary risk refugees, but merely getting here should not be the criteria. If only poverty were the criteria we might as well welcome half the world no questions asked.

Those are my positions; they are both humane and practical.

Marty Richman

What I object to Marty is the vituperative nature of your attacks and the outpouring of anger. I don't disagree with you about some of the things you say, but I dislike the manner in which you say them. Telling me to "grow up" and using the phrase passive aggressive to describe my attempts to be civil are calculated attempts to arouse anger, not discourse. You seem to think your position, whatever you perceive that to be, somehow gives you the right to be dismissive. But really Marty, you come off like the old man yelling at kids to keep off his lawn. Adjust to the fact that you speak only for yourself and those who agree with you, follow my example of listening to you and others about the NRA, and just tone it down. "Chill" as the kids say. This is called a "public forum" not "Marty's place".

Now go ahead, type your anger onto the page, dismiss "liberals" as children who don't have your worldly experience, bring up your inbred ability to discern who is a nazi, tell us who needs to grow up, then feel good about yourself. I'll tune it out, thank you.

Terry,

I'm not angry about anything or at anyone and you seem to have read that idea and the word liberal into everything.  Frankly, I don't care what your politics are, but I do care - and I'm offended - that you believe strong disagreement is "bullying."  As they used to say, that's a cop out; to me that is what people say when they either cannot or do not choose to defend their position. 

Stop calling me names and get on the subject and I won't make personal comments back; your bullying comment set me off.

You act as if you expect to be expect be attacked personally, and you're flinching   You are free to express yourself as you will - you see I'm "liberal" about freedom of expression, just don't expect to go unchallenged when I believe you're wrong.  That's the value of freedom of expression, without challenge you're just talking down an empty rain barrel.

Yes, I write a lot of comments and I do it because I value the exchange of ideas over the hyphenated two-word responses one gets on most online venues.  At least here you don't run out of ink.

Marty Richman

I "expect" to be treated with courtesy. Your responses often have a flavor of the instantaneous about them and the "conservative" content is easy to discern. Strong disagreement does not allow for sneering and adopting a posture that your opinion is more valid than anyone else's. As a nation we are facing perhaps the most divisive era since the Civil War, but just as the deadliness of weaponry has increased since that time so has the ugliness of discourse. We've come a long way from cartoons of Lincoln as an ape--or maybe not--but we have descended from that into lying and threatening as accepted behavior in the politics and the media reporting on it. Perhaps if we as citizens in a small town in a rural county can speak to each other in a civil manner we may be able to avert the disaster that looms greater every day.

You're smart and a good writer, your opinions are valuable because you think and study, and those are actions sorely missing in political circles today. That should be enough. Thanks for your response.

Submitted by Robert Gilchrist Huenemann (bobgh) on

Terry,

How old are you? I ask because you are retired. So did you live through the period following the decision on Brown vs. Board of Education? When was the last time that you saw federal troops deployed to enforce a Supreme Court decision?

Thanks to social media, we are aware of every divisive aspect of our society. More than that, social media is highly effective in exacerbating our divisions by inflaming our emotions. But the extremes of feeling we see today aren't even close to those of Americans, many of good will, who sincerely believed that the end of segregation would be the end of the world. I watched this country survive and largely heal. People who scream racism today have no idea what they are talking about.

People who were liberal in their youth are conservative today because many liberal ideas did not work and do not work now. The destruction of the nuclear family is a cancer on families and on societies. The 2000 kids we are quarreling about today are a drop in the bucket compared to the millions who are growing up with one parent. You will forgive me for being deeply skeptical of UNCONTROLLED, UNLIMITED immigration.

I'm 76 and have ben politically active since the JFK campaign when I was 16 and my aunt Peggy made my cousin Ed and I knock on doors for him to show voters that Catholics were humans too. I've seen a lot and changed my views a lot, but will always be a friend to the powerless. That said Robert, this thread is not mine. It was begun by Ms. Heather Graham and she offered her thoughts on the un-American administration policy that is tearing undocumented families apart in the name of "protecting our borders". I wrote in support of her effort because I felt her message came from the heart and not from a position of belligerence or policy. I hope you will address any helpful and civil comments to her. I don't wish to comment any further on the issue. Please see my thread about gun violence if you want to engage me personally (as you have already). Thanks.

Submitted by Robert Gilchrist Huenemann (bobgh) on

Heather's comments came from the heart, not from the brain. Likewise for your own.

Submitted by Ken Dunn (kenneth) on

Uncontrolled immigration, there's a concept and I'd be willing to try it, only if every other country in the world, all 200 of them, would do the same. Not much danger of that happening cause they all know that it wouldn't work. In a perfect world maybe, but we're not there yet. Still too many narcissists in government, all over the world, and they are not about to give up power, it's what they live for. And nobody wants other people's problems.

Submitted by Tod DuBois (John Galt) on

Youth, brains, and beauty vs. old white guys...let me consider this for a moment, which do you want to hook up with? Maybe that is a little too tantalizing, how about who do you think the future is for? And whom do you think we should follow into that future, 

 

Editor's note: Final sentence removed. Offensive and off-topic. See Terms of Use.

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Dude...inappropriate! Keep those thought s in your head.

I also want to point out that the author accuses those Homeland Security employees of engaging in "child abuse", but on one seems to have a problem with that.

Marty Richman

Hey Marty! I read Ms. Graham's  meaning contained in the phrase "this form of child abuse" to be a comment on the administration's policy and not an attack on employees of Homeland Security who are "doing their job" and not directing the policy. I'm certain there are those involved, perhaps even in the White House and the GOP who hate the situation as much as some of the rest of us. It is indefensible and a red meat ploy to "the base".

As to the Nazi reference, anything you say now is similar to closing the barn door after the horse is out. You first used the term, not Ms. Graham. You've called me out for assuming that some of what I say is intentionally inflammatory, is this not the same?

I suggest that all of us, including Ms. Graham, stop typing in the moment after we read a disagreeable post and count to ten, or a thousand, before responding.

Julie Finigan Morris's picture

Please note our Terms of Service: https://benitolink.com/terms-use 

Several comments in this feed are in violation of BenitoLink's commitment to civility, not to mention basic manners. 

Ms. Graham, I applaud you for contributing and I apologize for the trolls. The BenitoLink Team works hard to maintain civility and encourages diverse viewpoints.  Please do not let the rude and offensive comments discourage you from continuing to contribute. I have brought this to the attention of our editoirial team for review. 

Ms. Morris, perhaps you did not notice that Ms. Graham used the terms "intolerant, ignorant, and xenophobic" in her original story; is that not name calling?  In addition she stated that no "dare" defend some actions - that sounds like a threat to me.  Stories lamenting name-calling should not start with name-calling.

I'm of the opinion that you have one standard for those whose positions you agree with and one for those whose positions you do not agree with.  Just because you did not name names, calling people trolls is also an insult and demeaning - I guess name-calling does not apply to you either.

If you had read my original posts you will see that they are on the point of the story, until I was accused of bullying because I would not agree with some of her positions.

As for my comments, I categorically deny that violate the terms of service in any way, shape or form.  If you disagree I challenge you to point out the specific case and term of service PRIOR to someone claiming I was bullying them.

And that is MY opinion.

Marty Richman     

Julie Finigan Morris's picture

In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain. ~Source, Wikipedia

No name calling here. Stating facts. You also assume, without proof,  that I agree with the author's point of view. BenitoLink was formed to encourage civil participation and discourse among all residents of San Benito County. If you cannot adhere to those goals, you have no business on this site. 

mrs.g's picture
Submitted by Heather Graham (mrs.g) on

Unfortunately, I am quite discouraged. This being my first post I expected a tad more civility, but oh well. Thank you for apologizing I appreciate it.

-Heather

Well, Heather, like a lot of online digital forums, you will find that some people simply insist on trying to be the smartest person in the room - when of course they are not - and with that self-aggrandizement complex too often comes a sense of provocative entitlement. And that 'I'm the top dog here' attitude can evoke certain erroneous sentiments and baseless accusations about Nazism, etc. which are plainly uncivil and hostile. BenitoLink forbids such conduct in its Terms of Use and Values Statement as you have discovered.

If I may offer some constructive criticism about your original commentary, I did think it was a little too cynically honest about some folks in San Benito County, which is your prerogative. And the segue that linked the Trump-produced false crisis at the border was a bit of a stretch for me, but I get what you were conveying. 

Please continue to contribute content to BenitoLink, the forum needs more intelligent commentary like yours. 

Dear Ms. Graham, please try again after some research that proves your point. For example; I went to Google and typed "what happens to the detained kids on a day to day basis?". In an instant I had two pages and more of articles dealing with what is going on. Your detractors will shut you up if you let them. I've noticed you've not responded in kind to them. I applaud you for that.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+happens+to+the+detained+kids+on+a+d...

 

Submitted by Robert Gilchrist Huenemann (bobgh) on

Marty,

I have been curious about the positions of Benitolink ever since I was "interviewed" by one of their "reporters" on another subject. We are beginning to see who Benitolink classifies as engaging in "civil discourse", and who gets classified as a "troll".

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Julie, I'm not sure I would go as far to say anyone was trolling. The video below provides a detailed analysis on what it actually means to troll and why people do it. I think it is really worth a minute of everyone's time to watch and learn:

https://youtu.be/8fbyfDbi-MI?t=117

I disagree, Frank. BenitoLink, in my experience, provides wide latitude to readers with a BenitoLink account and its board has done a fine job monitoring, regulating and sometimes deleting content that do not meet its standards of civility.

"We reserve the right to remove any content that does not hold to these standards." - BenitoLink 

Good people make mistakes posting content in this forum and let their emotions take control of their better judgment. I have personally made such mistakes and been held accountable to BenitoLink standards in the past. 

Posting a link to a video that defines what an internet troll is and suggesting that BenitoLink conform to those standards is something I disagree with because I support the management of this forum and their judgment regarding offensive posts that do not meet their standards. If folks can't agree with those standards, they can discontinue participating in BenitoLink's forum and find an outlet more sympathetic to their ranting; Fox News, Breitbart, Westboro Baptist Church, etc. in my humble opinion. 

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Sorry had to do it low hanging fruit :)

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Your post only proves you didn't watch the video and are just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. This is too easy LOL

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

So let me get this straight... anyone who doesn't agree with your "HUMBLE (lol) opinion) is lumped in with the Westboro Baptist Church? Do you think before you type these things? Your comment's logic is INSANE. I may not agree with your opinions but I don't think you are not welcome in the Benitolink comments and should relegate yourself to the Al-Qaeda forum. Get real dude. 

Submitted by Tod DuBois (John Galt) on

Apparently, someone or some people were offended by me stating the truth, Frank suggested I be silent and not bring in the truth to the discussion. I then offered a very good tool for political action to help SBC become more progressive. It's the reactionaries and entrenched powers that fear progress and change, to the right or the left. 

I congratulate the author for trying and bring vibrant discussion, even if some find it unpleasant. We don't want BenitoLink to be entertainment like much of the web and other blogs, we want hard-hitting debate that drives progress and change. 

It appears some people missed the point of BenitoLink's Terms of Use that define its standards for civility in this forum. Sadly, spirited and 'hard-hitting debate' turned to mean-spirited, personal attacks invoking the pejorative term of 'Nazi' and subornation of the author accusing her of secretly playing with words which means she is guilty of indirectly guilty of using the Nazi label through erroneous inference. That's the issue, in my opinion. And that line of personal, ad hominem attack is not allowed by BenitoLink's standards or its moderators who have the duty to stop and prevent what it correctly defines as 'trolling'.  

Bring on the debate! Leave the personal attacks and mean-spirited name-calling out of this forum!  

Submitted by (Frank Ramsey) on

Tod, you said you basically said you support Mrs. Graham because she is smart and you want to smash. 

I agree she probably is a smart person. 

I  feel its inappropriate for you to state you support her because she arouses you. You can feel that way but that is best kept to yourself.

Can we all agree that we are not paid professional editorial staff writers for a major publication, and thus not everything we say is written to the highest standards of diction, grammar, style and content that is demanded of those people? If everyone tries as hard as they can to be clear about what their point is and leaves emotion off the page, we'll  benefit as a community and not just as individuals being satisfied for "telling it like it is". If we just talk to each other on Benitolink the way we would at the Safeway we'll get further. We are all adults, I think.

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